[html4all] Object element support

[Leif Halvard Silli]

Robert J Burns 2008-08-22 13.05:

> On Aug 22, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:


 >>>>>>    <object data=one-movie.mov >

>>>>>>   <!-- all this is fallback for 'one movie': -->
>>>>>>    <img src=src alt='Fallback for IMG, as part of
>>>>>>       fallback for one-movie.' >
>>>>>>    <object  data=another-movie.mov >
>>>>>>   Fallback for 'another movie', which again is
>>>>>>       fallback for one-movie.
>>>>>>       <!-- end of fallback for 'one movie' -->
>>>>>>    </p></object></object>
>>
>>
>>>> So you don't hink a validator should OK this?
>>>
>>> No, I think the validator should throw an error for the IMG element.

    [...]

>> So, if I want to offer some flash to those that enjoy flash, but a
>> nice mark-up with some images as fallback for the other readers,
>> then this would not be good enough, you say. Because then the
>> screen readers would get some IMG elements.

    [...]

> That is a use case I had not considered (multi media like flash  
> falling back to multi media HTML). I agree it should be permitted.  
> However, then I'm left wondering what you meant by your original  
> OBJECT element objections. It seems your example should be both  
> document conforming and is also handled properly even in HTML4.01.


Well, in a way it is linked to this use case. The question is: Is 
there a need for the distinction short vs. long fallback? As 
sighted, grasping an image is fast. Describing it in words might 
take longer time to read etc.

For the IMG, the @longdesc is place you can jump /to/. However, 
perhaps what is really needed is to be able to jump /over/? I.e. 
if - as Jason said - the fallback is always long. Consider this:

<p><object data="src" title="Complex Diagram">
<table summary="The ins and outs of this and that.">
<caption>Complex Diagram
<a href="#next-paragraph">Skip to next paragraph.</a>
</caption><tr><th [... etc ...]</table></object></p>
<p id="next">....</p>

So, perhaps, what I said about being able to jump to a long 
description, could be replaced with an advice to authors that they 
provide a way to "Skip over" the (long) fallback? Just as it is 
recommended to be able to skip over navigation and to main 
content? Or, perhaps simply adding a table summary would be 
enough? ;-)

(Seems like my view on this has developed.)

 
> If we make longdesc available on OBJECT (or even make it a global  
> attribute), then OBJECT has everything needed to replace IMG (at least  
> in present and future browsers with IE8). The contents of the OBJECT  
> element contain the alt text for the embedded media and other  
> description can be referenced by the longdesc attribute (or contained  
> in the embedded media internally as I've suggested elsewhere)[1].i


> [1]: <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/UANormAndDOMForMediaPropeties>
-- 

Leif Halvard Silli